They couldn't be more different: but they are both good
Posted: 21/05/12 03:51 | 37 Comments
Here are a couple of examples of good work that came in at assessment this time round. One is a set of learning logs, the other a sketchbook. Thanks to Emily Hinshelwood and Charlotte La Touche.They provide evidence of the grand variety of work that confronts assessors and how much delight the variety can supply…
Posted by author: Jane Parry
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Impressive!
Because we are all over the place, we never get to see the standard of others’ works, and these videos have become SO informative, across all the arts at OCA.
Credit given where due 🙂
Wonderful approaches from both Emily and Charlotte. Very inspirational.
yeah, I like…
I saw the first and it appealed for its neatness, then the second was just such an interesting and unique way of doing things.
yeah, I do like…
Really nice to see the different ways in which these students have chosen to display their final work. Both very different, but each with qualities of its own.
Fabulous ideas. Thanks for showing them.
As ever, they are lovely to look at (and to hold I imagine). I’m intending to visit my nearest Degree Exhibition (Farnham UCA) as I did last year as it is so useful to actually see this type of work.
Thank you! I’ve found the ‘learning log’ quite a difficult concept and these two examples are so helpful and enlightening.
Inspiring!I love the hand made books and equally the unusual sket5chbook.I wish I got such brilliant ideas. perhaps seeing t6hese will inspire something.
Both very interesting with great attention to detail. I loved the hand sewing- a nice touch to contrast with the graphic imagery. The sketchbook idea was lovely (novel!). I’ve just come back from Wigtown, which has more second hand book shops per square mile than anywhere else in Scotland. I saw lots of lovely old books there which would make lovely sketchbooks. I bought a 70s one on collage, not to paint on, but to inspire me to use paper in different ways.
So glad to be receiving these OCA updates on Facebook, I find this a lot more accessable than the website. It’s great seeing how other artists work, I love ‘difference’ is celebrated. Congratulations to both artists your work is very impressive and inspriational.
The first example was excellent showing skills that would eventually be required for employment as a graphic designer whether self employed or working for an agency. The second example proved very little in the way of artistic skill. Couldn’t see the point in it at all.
agree with Dewald!
of course as inspiring videos, great examples etc, etc……but as someone just about to hand in their graphics work for assessment (learning log in ring folder, no time for massive reappraisal) I think my primary feeling was “wind out of sails”. Sigh.
Sarah… Those two pieces came across to me as very personal work, and showing a lot of the character of the students perhaps (well, if that much can be brought across in such a short page through).
So I think you should ask yourself … is your work YOU?
If so, what do the British say? “Chin-up dear!” (or something like that…)
Of course you are right Dewald, and as I don’t aspire to being a big grown up graphic designer my messy chaotic style is ME, rather than a very glossy finish…….
Wendy that was a bit harsh!
At the end of the day they are as INDIVIDUAL as the artists and the disciplines followed and serves them as they need –
Both inspirational in their own way.
Another good insight!!
Dawn
It’s not harsh, it’s realistic. I went to Art College and the only people who eventually acquired good jobs were those who were highly skilled and technically excellent. They say there’s no money in art, that you can’t get jobs in the field but you can if you have skill. It is doing a student a dis-service in convincing them that by buying an old book and filling it with scribbles they will have a future in art, they will just become disillusioned in the end. It is said of great artists that you have to know the rules before you can break them. Those who break the rules without knowing them in the first place will not succeed.
Wendy,
If education was just about acquiring the skills for work, then I’d have to agree with you entirely. But it’s not.
Some people even with relative inexperience and possibly limited skills have inate ability to appeal in their delivery of artistic material. For example, untrained musicians can bring unique sounds that other highly skilled but unoriginal people just could not have created.
Replication of tried and tested techniques is important, but we don’t advance unless we take risks, through some caution to the wind and try the novel and unusual.
Me – I probably fall in the tried and tested camp in what I deliver, but I do envy those with the ability to produce the unusual and unique.
If education was about acquiring skills for work then a lot more people would be employed. Some of the unhappiest and unfulfilled people I know are creative and artistic but end up in dead end jobs because they cannot get work in their chosen field. The best most can hope for is to be an art teacher and teach pupils who take art not because they love it but because they think it’s an easy option. Unusual and unique is not easy, it takes great skill and expertise and, as I said previously, scribbling in a printed book shows nothing of great skill. I studied the film several times hoping to see something of promise but there was nothing attractive, unusual or skilful and I strongly feel that it is wrong of art lecturers to convince students to submit such work. I suspect that it is an easy option for the lecturer.
I greatly admire the fashion designs of the Swedish clothes designer Gudrun Sjoden whose work is original and unique but you only have to look at what she does to see her innate skill and talent and immense amount of hard work. The second example showed none of this and if they are pursuing art education simply to be ‘unusual’ then what are they planning to do thereafter? Tesco check-out operator maybe?
Who are the ‘they’ you mention? And re. ‘it is said of great artists ….’ who said it? (probably an art critic with a fixed agenda). If you are going to make such sweeping statements you need to be able to defend them with facts and a great deal of knowledge. Qualitative elements like ‘Skill’ and ‘excellence’ are judged differently in different environments at different times by different people, which means that(for example) expertise in one skill may not be as important in one discipline as it is in another. Your idea of what skill and excellence is may not be in line with (for example)mine. i am not saying that you aren’t entitled to voice your opinion, far from it but when making derogatory comments about other artists’ work you do need to back it up with knowledge. You also need to acknowledge that no-one can say they know everything there is to know about quality in art (or any other discipline) – going to art college doesn’t make one an expert in the entire field of art practice.
Both works are very interesting!
The first one is so neat, that they look like professional magazines! and the second a much more artistic approach inspired on altered books. Very impressive work!
I think Wendy is being very narrow minded. Maybe she would be better on a Maths course?
Wendy is not narrow minded she is an accomplished, trained artist of very many years standing who has seen many a creative talent stifled by poor teaching, lack of basic training in skills and a tendency to over enthuse about what is seen as original but has no potential in the long term. To resort to making a personal comment regarding my being narrow minded makes it obvious you have no empathy with the artistic community. or you might consider my point of view in respect of ensuring that those who attend Art College or Art courses come away fully able to realise their potential and, if they so wish, have the skills required to earn a living at what they love. Pasting scruffy drawings in an old book will lead nowhere.
At the risk of adding fuel to the fire—and this thread degenerating into a tit-for-tat mud-slinging commentary—I do still have some comment to make.
Wendy—I think the ‘narrow-minded’ comment above was in reaction to your derogatory reference to the ‘tesco check-out operator’, which in itself was uncalled for.
Secondly, you assume that everyone attending an OCA course is doing so in the hope of qualifying and gaining useful employment in the field of qualification—this might not be the case.
Thirdly, the so-called ‘scribbling in books’ was not in a public art-piece but in a student’s private journal/sketchbook—it is a place for experimentation, thoughts and reflection. There is no right or wrong way for a student to do this—whatever frees them to interact with their own thoughts is an acceptable practice. “…will have a different method or system for compiling their research. There is no right or wrong way—you need to find the approach that works best for you.” [Fox, A. and Caruana, N. (2012) Behind the Image—Research in Photography. Lausanne: AVA Publishing]
Yes it was a novel approach to recording such thoughts—but your attitude is dismissive and hurtful. Additionally, the quick overview of the sketchbook does not allow us to see what words she has ringed—and how her sketches on those pages are related.
Finally, you have taken offence at being called ‘narrow-minded’—taking this as a personal comment against your status as an ‘accomplished, trained artist of very many years standing’—and yet you have no problem inferring that the OCA is stifling creative spirit because of bad teaching—a personal comment, lacking in empathy—and possibly without knowledge of the quality of teaching at the OCA. One swallow does not a summer make; and one piece of work that you do not like, does not mean that the quality of education at the OCA is poor.
Let’s just let it go now.
I did not take offence at being called ‘narrow minded’ it is just that by making such a remark it confines my opinions to that of a worthless bigot, which I am not, and who knows what on earth was meant by her saying I would be better off on a Maths course, I did not even dignify it with an answer. Most of the answers on this page have completely missed the point of what am I saying, so I will let it go because there seems an almost blank refusal to understand what I have to say by people who cannot accept another’s educated point of view. I do not know the circumstances of the students who submitted their work for assessment. They may be young students hoping for a career or mature students intending to improve their skills but whichever it is then any remarks are obviously discouraged and we must all admire both examples without comment and definitely not with criticism. The OCA might, therefore, re-consider putting any student’s work online in case someone dares comment adversely. The Tesco check-out operator comment is not derogatory, I am surprised you think it is, but when undertaking a course in Art and, presumably paying a price to do so, one might hope instead to be eventually gainfully employed in the field of art or enjoying it as a delightful hobby to be tackled with confidence and skill.
I’m interested in book arts of all sorts and have made a small (very small) number of artists books, so the fact that both of these students are working with the book as a format in very different ways really delights, excites and stimulates me! What creativity!
Thanks for showing us these two wonderful approaches to presenting work. I loved how they were so different and it was also really useful having the commentary talking us through a way of evaluating and understanding them. It is a shame that the ‘equal but different’ strengths of these books have passed Wendy by. Referring to ‘scribbles’ in such a dismissive way perhaps is a comment best kept private as opposed to sharing on the Internet in this way – this is a fellow student after all, not some renowned artist who might be ready for a jibe like this.
In the main post, Jane’s words are ‘…evidence of the grand variety of work…’.
And I’ll echo your words Julia, equal but different, in Cambodia and Thailand, the locals say ‘same same, but different’..
I think it is possible to forget, and I don’t say this is the case though, that OCA still caters for all levels of students, because of open entry. And, also, that not all our students are working towards a degree, but rather for personal enjoyment and growth.
I am very hesitant to agree, because I don’t want to be involved in a disagreement on here, where the function of this video is to share material in a positive light. But I’m with you Julia.
In principal and the hard reality, Wendy may have a point, I guess, but I do feel the point of this video is almost a celebration of the variety of work the OCA sees.
I think Wendy makes a valid point, and is being sympathetic rather than dismissive. The content/looking/learning is where the real, lasting interest is. The presentation can’t be the main thing. Having said that – I’m damned if I know how to send all this work I’ve got here off to my tutor!
They’re both inspirational (which is the point of these videos isn’t it) and, as a graphic design student, Emily’s presentation is really interesting to me. Sketchbooks as personal and tactile things are very fashionable at the moment, as is arty recycling generally, and Charlotte’s is a lovely example of this. Bit like this: http://slowcoast.co.uk/soundslides/soundslide.php?id=85 And (zeitgeist moment) sketchbooks, handmade books are interesting now, because printed books are giving way to electronic very fast for functional use – so they’re becoming objects of interest again as things of loveliness / artsi-craftiness – whatever you want to call it. Think Lomo, Holga, Letterpress. Emily’s is very professional looking, Charlotte’s very arty. The Slowcoast website (back reference, and I know it’s not a book…) brings professional/arty together quite nicely I think!
Love that link Pam! I agree with you re the retro zeitgeist. It is an interesting reaction to all things digital and also I suppose the ‘make do and mend’ aspect appeals to the ‘age of austerity’ which is being touted atm! (I actually think the phrase ‘age of austerity’ is also part of the zeitgeist which is trying to glamorise the recession – it has an Edwardian feel to it). I love it when the crafty culture combines with the digital. I recently saw someone who had made an iPad case out of a Girls Adventure Stories hardback bookcover.
Perhaps I shouldn’t write this – but on the subject of presentation – doesn’t it look a little odd having a man’s hands, complete with hairy arms, flicking thru’ the book, with a female voice over!
Oh yeah, you should—it made me giggle!
I reckon Jane is gonna be upset if those are her hands! Let’s just hope for the best!
I know lots of artists, in many fields, who are highly skilled but don’t make a living. Funding is constantly being cut and sales for most are down because of the recession. Many of the artists who make big money do not necessarily have technical skill, but may have other skills to do with self promotion etc. It’s simply not true that you can get an art related job just because you have the skill. Perhaps there are more jobs for graphic designers, but fine artists rely more on sales,commissions and funding and, yes, teaching.
I always find these videos interesting. It is reassuring to know that you can take risks with how you present your work for assessment as long as you are sensible and think carefully about it.
As for this heated discussion going on, I agree with Linda in that ‘skill’ and ‘excellence’ mean different things to different people. I also have beef with the worn out notion that we all need to know rules to know how to do something different/break them successfully (and yes, I get that many people view art in the context of art history – too much for my liking…). First, I have no idea what rules are being talked about. I was under the impression that in creation there are no rules. If there was some set of rules that every artist must follow then every artwork would be similar, how boring would that be? For me, art is about individuals trying to find themselves, its artists having conversations with eachother and the world. It is all very democratic. I love that there aren’t institutions anymore demanding that we be and create a certain way, that there are buyers for all sorts etc. There are many successfully artists throughout history that created new paths, had new ideas and many of them weren’t masters of the old.
I also don’t know why success is being determined by money, getting an art job or such like. As has been said, this often depends on other skills such as being good at PR and building connections in todays world. If it turns out that I’ll create all my life and barely scrape by, maybe jumping from lame job to another just to buy art materials and food then so be it. I’ll leave artwork behind that I will have given my all to and I will have loved the journey. Hopefully it’ll survive and maybe someone someday will come across it and like it and then I’ll get my name in history, but if not then oh well – I’ll determine my own success thank you very much! I’m my worst critic anyway. 😉
Just be yourself. Thats all you can do better than anyone else. Let the rest of the world do what it wants.
Blimey, what a heated debate!
I really liked the watercolour studies and appreciated the added visual texture of the printed text.
I got the impression that Jane was illustrating that there are no hard and fast rules on how we work, and that you can be creative with presentation too.
I liked that the books perhaps appear as a reflection and insight to the personalities of the students.